“You know, when both your parents are artists, rebelling against them doesn’t come from becoming an artist yourself.” “Maybe you’d do something like… math.”

During an exchange event co-hosted by the 37th Tokyo International Film Festival and The Japan Foundation, Indian female director Payal Kapadia, a graduate of India’s Film and Television Institute, joked with Hirokazu Koreeda. Kapadia, who won the Cannes Jury Prize this year, bringing glory to Indian cinema, shared how becoming a filmmaker wasn’t a clear path for her, especially as she studied economics in college.

Even though her mother is the renowned Indian artist Nalini Malani, Kapadia never envisioned art as part of her own career aspirations.

“My mom used to take me to watch a lot of movies when I was young, especially documentaries, because many of her friends were documentary filmmakers. But honestly, I didn’t really understand what I was watching back then.”

“I was fortunate to have these experiences, even though at first, I didn’t know what I wanted to do.”

Kapadia’s father, art historian and curator Johan Pijnappel, focused on Asian video art and accompanied Nalini Malani to Japan in 1999 as her advisor. His research bridged culture and history, which perhaps explains the multidimensional perspective in Kapadia’s 2021 debut documentary, A Night of Knowing Nothing. Through a female student’s monologue, the film addresses not only cinema but also politics, weaving in themes of love, caste, and criticism of India’s social hierarchy.

Her use of fictional characters in the narrative is striking, as the student’s voice feels so authentic. In fact, many of the experiences depicted are from Kapadia herself or her friends, as women studying film in India.

The film won the Caméra d’Or at Cannes in 2021. Three years later, Kapadia has grown impressively and has brought her latest work, All We Imagine as Light.

But despite her achievements, Kapadia faced substantial setbacks.

Just as Hirokazu Koreeda, an acclaimed international director, faced criticism over his drama series Kiyo in Kyoto (2023), Kapadia encountered challenges. It was only after exploring various film festivals and encountering wild experimental films that she considered filmmaking as a career. Yet after graduating, the Film and Television Institute of India initially rejected her application. Determined, she spent five years as an assistant director, working on various projects before deciding to try again. Her resilience mirrors Koreeda, who continued to explore themes related to women’s lives despite criticism.

“This was all too tragic, I told myself.” “I had to reapply.”

She not only succeeded in entering the Film and Television Institute of India but also systematically delved into global cinema classics, from Satyajit Ray of India to Eisenstein of the Soviet Union, Hong Kong’s Wong Kar-wai, and Taiwan’s Edward Yang, as well as works by Koreeda and Naomi Kawase. Her professors even introduced them to the literature of Yasunari Kawabata. Though she was older than many classmates, they enjoyed working together, and she formed lasting collaborations with editors, sound mixers, and colorists.

“I love working with the same people.”

In their environment, solidarity with trustworthy partners is paramount.

Kapadia highlighted the harsh conditions for independent filmmaking in India. Many classmates who aspired to make films like her ended up working on commercial film projects, like RRR, just to make a living. When she began her first film, funding was uncertain. As students in 2015, they documented protests against political interference in their school. Kapadia even lost her scholarship for her activism but later secured support from France. For her second film, she again relied on international co-productions and tax incentives for Indian co-productions.

Kapadia and Koreeda discussed not only the challenges but also how filmmakers could improve industry conditions through their work.

Koreeda admitted that as a man, he couldn’t completely escape the limitations of his male perspective, and even thinking he could was somewhat arrogant. For instance, while making Kiyo in Kyoto, he noticed the gap between popular cultural perceptions and the reality of Kyoto’s geisha district. He strives to continue learning and exploring women’s diverse experiences in his work, understanding that human emotions, personalities, and experiences are inherently complex.

Kapadia, though a woman, noted her own privileges based on caste, class, and language. India, with over twenty dialects, often overlooks this linguistic diversity in cinema, a gap she hopes to address. She aims to capture how women survive in highly stratified environments shaped by caste, religion, class, language, and race—issues that deeply interest her.

Kapadia’s new film, All We Imagine as Light, distributed by Haipeng Films, will be released by the end of this year, showcasing her growth. In January next year, we’ll also see Koreeda’s Like Asura (2025) on Netflix.